Comments on: Mammon, masquerading as “The Market”, is a false prophet http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:40:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Robert David Steele http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449#comment-897 Robert David Steele Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:34:24 +0000 http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449#comment-897 I do NOT see such a politician anywhere. The good news is that Collective Intelligence is emergent, and information is a substitute for money, it just has not come of age yet. Karl Rove was surrounded by angry protesters in his home, and trapped inside. They chased him from room to room from the outside. The day is going to come when the White House will be blockaged by millions until the miscreats agree to resign and hold a special election. The PROBLEM is NOT firing the idiots, the PROBLEM is finding someone actually intelligent enough and non-partisan enough to build a coalition cabinet, execute electoral, governance, budget, and national security reform, and move on. I do NOT see such a politician anywhere.

The good news is that Collective Intelligence is emergent, and information is a substitute for money, it just has not come of age yet.

Karl Rove was surrounded by angry protesters in his home, and trapped inside. They chased him from room to room from the outside. The day is going to come when the White House will be blockaged by millions until the miscreats agree to resign and hold a special election.

The PROBLEM is NOT firing the idiots, the PROBLEM is finding someone actually intelligent enough and non-partisan enough to build a coalition cabinet, execute electoral, governance, budget, and national security reform, and move on.

]]> By: Jock Gill http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449#comment-896 Jock Gill Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:38:13 +0000 http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449#comment-896 Robert, Your comment on my post says the truth to power, to Mammon. It is a truth the current politicians dare not speak as they are far too compromised by Mammon's corporate money. Look at the conventional wisdom, the candidate with the most money wins. Not the best ideas. Not the best team, Not the best platform. In America today, we have sunk to the low of the politics of Mammon. "Both the Chinese and the Muslims understand that American capitalism has become immoral, predatory, and unsustainable." The fact that you are well respected veteran of our intelligence profession, a political moderate, and a man of deep religious convictions makes your statement all the more powerful. I hope this is a common, if unspoken, understanding amongst your peers. I hope they will give voice to their views informed by their deep professional expertise. I believe the pathological condition of the current state of American capitalism is generally understood in most of the 3rd and less developed world. They have been victimized for too long by immoral, predatory, unregulated capitalism - Mammon loose in the world - not to have figured this out by now. For them, and I would argue us, it is now a moral imperative to right this wrong. Yet who amongst us stands up and asserts the basic truth that people have primacy over markets and never the other way around? Would that we had a political party that dared to speak this truth to Mammon. Today, I am looking for such a politician in vain. Do you see one in the future? Thanks, Jock Robert,

Your comment on my post says the truth to power, to Mammon. It is a truth the current politicians dare not speak as they are far too compromised by Mammon’s corporate money.

Look at the conventional wisdom, the candidate with the most money wins. Not the best ideas. Not the best team, Not the best platform. In America today, we have sunk to the low of the politics of Mammon.

“Both the Chinese and the Muslims understand that American capitalism has become immoral, predatory, and unsustainable.” The fact that you are well respected veteran of our intelligence profession, a political moderate, and a man of deep religious convictions makes your statement all the more powerful. I hope this is a common, if unspoken, understanding amongst your peers. I hope they will give voice to their views informed by their deep professional expertise.

I believe the pathological condition of the current state of American capitalism is generally understood in most of the 3rd and less developed world. They have been victimized for too long by immoral, predatory, unregulated capitalism - Mammon loose in the world - not to have figured this out by now.

For them, and I would argue us, it is now a moral imperative to right this wrong. Yet who amongst us stands up and asserts the basic truth that people have primacy over markets and never the other way around? Would that we had a political party that dared to speak this truth to Mammon.

Today, I am looking for such a politician in vain. Do you see one in the future?

Thanks,

Jock

]]> By: Robert David STEELE Vivas http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449#comment-895 Robert David STEELE Vivas Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:17:29 +0000 http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449#comment-895 Jock's really on to something here. In my reading there is a consistent theme of how balance is always required--Joe Fox in his book on quality talked about the opposite of virtue not being vice, but virtue carried to an extreme (e.g. the Crusades). From E.O. Wilson's Consilience to Lionel Tiger's the Manufacture of Evil, to John Ralston's Voltaire's Bastards, the theme is the same: science without humanities is destructive, secrecy is pathological, the market is NOT an *alternative* to the commons, but rather one that must co-exist with the commons. Both the Chinese and the Muslims understand that American capitalism has become immoral, predatory, and unsustainable. Some very smart people like David Rothkopf are starting to talk about the need for a Doctrine of Interdependence. He is right on target. Governments exist to nuture the Commonwealth and to do those things that are not "profitable" in isolation. This requires extraorindary integrity, strategy, consistency, and vision. Right now I do not see that in either the Republican or the Democratic parties. Jock’s really on to something here. In my reading there is a consistent theme of how balance is always required–Joe Fox in his book on quality talked about the opposite of virtue not being vice, but virtue carried to an extreme (e.g. the Crusades). From E.O. Wilson’s Consilience to Lionel Tiger’s the Manufacture of Evil, to John Ralston’s Voltaire’s Bastards, the theme is the same: science without humanities is destructive, secrecy is pathological, the market is NOT an *alternative* to the commons, but rather one that must co-exist with the commons. Both the Chinese and the Muslims understand that American capitalism has become immoral, predatory, and unsustainable. Some very smart people like David Rothkopf are starting to talk about the need for a Doctrine of Interdependence. He is right on target. Governments exist to nuture the Commonwealth and to do those things that are not “profitable” in isolation. This requires extraorindary integrity, strategy, consistency, and vision. Right now I do not see that in either the Republican or the Democratic parties.

]]> By: Richard Bell http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449#comment-894 Richard Bell Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:58:09 +0000 http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/archives/449#comment-894 Jock is quite right that the MSM simply ignore huge stories that might discomfort the wealthy rulers. Before the Chicago demo Josh mentions, there was the latest demo about immigration in DC history last week, probably well over 100,000 people filling the west lawn of the Capitol, with virtually no coverage. And last week Code Pink brought over a group of Iraqi women to testify about the impact of the war on different sectors of Iraqi society. There were numerous presentations around the city, including one in the Capitol. I attended one at a church, and the testimony was heart-rending, to say the least. My friends and I left the church feeling deeply ashamed of ourselves, and of our country. But was there a word about these eloquent witnesses in the Washington Post? No. Nothing. The disappearance of shame has been a serious blow to efforts to maintain the admittedly thin veneer of civilization. As we have learned, Karl Rove and his minions have no shame. Social strictures that would restrain more honorable men and women have no effect on Rove and his ilk. Once again, we see what a grave disadvantage one is at when one's supporters still think they are dealing with an opponent who is playing by some set of rules, when the opponent in fact has thrown the rule book out the window some time ago and whose only bottom line is to win, regardless of whatever rules may once have existed. Richard Bell Jock is quite right that the MSM simply ignore huge stories that might discomfort the wealthy rulers. Before the Chicago demo Josh mentions, there was the latest demo about immigration in DC history last week, probably well over 100,000 people filling the west lawn of the Capitol, with virtually no coverage.

And last week Code Pink brought over a group of Iraqi women to testify about the impact of the war on different sectors of Iraqi society. There were numerous presentations around the city, including one in the Capitol. I attended one at a church, and the testimony was heart-rending, to say the least. My friends and I left the church feeling deeply ashamed of ourselves, and of our country.

But was there a word about these eloquent witnesses in the Washington Post? No. Nothing.

The disappearance of shame has been a serious blow to efforts to maintain the admittedly thin veneer of civilization. As we have learned, Karl Rove and his minions have no shame. Social strictures that would restrain more honorable men and women have no effect on Rove and his ilk. Once again, we see what a grave disadvantage one is at when one’s supporters still think they are dealing with an opponent who is playing by some set of rules, when the opponent in fact has thrown the rule book out the window some time ago and whose only bottom line is to win, regardless of whatever rules may once have existed.

Richard Bell

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